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ONE-ON-ONE WITH
BILL GROSS
April, 2006
Legend®:
What are your expectations on the Fed Policy and its intent to
tighten the money supply and control inflation in 2006? Some
investors have forecast that interest rates will increase
indefinitely, whereas others are expecting a slowdown in the Fed
Policy.
Bill Gross: We think there might be one more hike
left. I think the Fed's pointed to the housing market, and I
think that housing is beginning to weaken. And soon, the Fed
will recognize that and it will stop. But, you know, there's a
chance that we might see 4.75 %. Some would suggest that there's
a chance that we go to 5 %, 5.25% based upon higher inflation
and a stronger economy. I just don't see that. I think Mr.
Bernanke believes that the global savings glut, which is his
phrase, has basically been responsible for the inability of
long-term and intermediate rates to rise and to stay at these
types of levels. In other words, he believes that the global
economy, and certainly the U.S. economy, has more slack in it,
has less investment fervor, and therefore, that rates for this
level of economic growth belong at these levels. So, it's not a
very bullish indicator as far as Bernanke is concerned.
Legend®:
We believe that a slowdown in the growth of domestic home prices
in various regions across the country will occur. One of the
major contributors to this slowdown going forward will be a
decrease in the affordability of housing due to increasing
interest rates and consumer debt levels being at their highest
point in U.S. history. In your third quarter 2005 Investment
Outlook newsletter you indicated that this is indeed the
scenario our economy is in currently. Are there any other
factors that you believe may or may not contribute to a slow
down, or increase, for domestic home prices?
Bill Gross: I think you hit the two most important
factors. You see, housing gains have contributed significantly
to U.S. growth via wealth effects on consumers, cash-out
refinancings, home equity loans, and job growth in real
estate-related industries. Higher mortgage rates over recent
months and continued pressure on real wages and incomes will
crimp housing affordability in 2006, taking the froth out of the
property market. The decline in housing affordability has
already begun.
Legend®:
Since the 1920s, we have seen a negative correlation between
commodity prices and 5- and 10-year normalized P/E ratios.
Currently commodity prices are at one of their lowest points in
history, especially on an inflation-adjusted price basis, and
P/E ratios are at one of their highest points. Please provide
your viewpoint on the relationship between commodity prices and
5- and 10- year normalized P/E ratios and what type of
performance you expect for stocks and commodities over the next
decade.
Bill Gross: The bottom line is that in the context of
slightly higher-than-average P/Es, we expect muted equity
returns over a long-term horizon. In addition, we do not see
commodity prices as low in a historical context. Rather we see
commodity prices as fair, with bullish fundamentals facing the
headwinds of "targeted" inflation rates, and prudent
monetary policy regimes worldwide. This will make tactical
positioning, security selection, and most importantly, what we
call structural positioning of your portfolio, PIMCO's key tools
over the coming decade.
Legend®:
In your third quarter 2002 Investment Outlook, you had made a
comment that, "In order for stocks to perform well, they
must be priced appropriately. Therefore, investors must start
with low P/E's and strong dividends". At that time, you had
also stated, "In order to be appropriately priced, the Dow
Industrial Average must decline to a level of 5,000 and the
S&P 500 a level of 650". At the start of 2006, the Dow
Jones Industrial Average is approaching 11,000 and the S&P
500 is approaching 1,300. To recap the three years subsequent to
these comments being made, these two market indices have done
nothing but well. The Dow has risen approximately 50% and the
S&P 500 rose approximately 63%. Please elaborate as to
whether you still believe that the Dow at 5,000 and the S&P
at 650 remain appropriate levels for the U.S. stock market to be
priced. If not, please describe the levels in which you believe
that stocks will be fairly valued, as well as what fundamental
factors have caused you to change your estimates.
Bill Gross: My Dow 5,000 estimate was a mistake
because the Fed and outside central banks lowered real interest
rates from 4% to 1 - 2% over the period, raising the present
value of nearly all financial assets in the process. In
addition, substantial global labor arbitrage boosted U.S.
profits to historic margins as a percentage of GDP. While the
latter trend will in time reverse, low real yields may be here
for a while, suggesting a permanently higher plateau at
8,000-plus depending on cyclical forces.
Legend®:
PIMCO has a very deep bench when it comes to portfolio
management talent. Mohamed A. El-Erian, the portfolio manager
for the PIMCO Emerging Markets Bond Fund and who was quite
involved in the PIMCO strategies, is leaving to run Harvard's
endowment. Who will fill his shoes, or will it be a few people?
Bill Gross: PIMCO is extremely proud of Mohamed's
accomplishments at PIMCO, and of his selection to join Harvard
University in a leadership position, taking direct charge of
Harvard Management Company (as CEO and President) and joining
the prestigious faculty at Harvard Business School. Mohamed has
worked hard to institutionalize much of what he contributes to
PIMCO on a daily basis, including most importantly hiring and
mentoring colleagues in the portfolio management area. We expect
that existing portfolio management resources, which have
developed well under Mohamed, will rise to the challenge and
take on the leadership of Mohamed's portfolio and management
responsibilities. We have been aggressively adding talent in
recent years to keep pace with the demands of our growth, and
Mohamed's departure will certainly add to the importance of that
task.
Legend®:
At what age do you expect to retire or will you die "with
your boots on?"
Bill Gross: How funny! But I’d be more likely to
say, "With my boots and Bloomberg on." Thank you for
this opportunity to address your clients and your fine staff of
investment professionals.
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